S02E004, It’s Gone Pear Shaped, Marriage Matters
Introduction
In this week’s Marriage Matters, Andy B and Jo face the fact that things can go wrong and use the phrase ‘pear shaped’ to describe difficulties in marriage. Jo wants us to know that they are not being ‘pearist’ and have nothing against pears! And, as usual, Jo and Andy share their own experiences to encourage and support us in celebrating marriages in spite of these unattractive problems and help us find a healthy way to grow our marriages.
In this episode, Andy and Jo encourage us to keep going in our marriages and work at creating peace and harmony in the home in spite of problems and to let understanding and forgiveness rule.
Andy reminds us that the bible is full of good stuff to help us in our marriages and Jo is amazed at how God turns things around and brings good out of our trials. Andy and Jo highlighted these scripture verses:
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Mathew 7:5
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James 1:19
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Mathew 18:15 -20
The Meaty Section
Andy and Jo chew through some difficult topics and try and make sense of it all.
#RealTalk and #RealLife is just what we do!
Tips and Resources
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Find a mature, Godly married couple to spend time with and to learn from them
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Visit marriage.com for useful articles proving possible solutions to your marriage problems.
The Take Away
Jo – “There’s so much great advice around in books, from churches, through videos – there’s help, so never think you’re on your own!”
Andy – “The Bible always has the answer to the struggles we have. It also shows us the best way to nurture, grow and strengthen your marriage.”
Andy B
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Transcript
Andy 0:29
Hello, and welcome to another episode of
Jo 0:32
Marriage Matters
Andy 0:33
with Andy
Jo 0:34
and Jo.
Andy 0:35
Hey, it's all like, you know, syncing.
Jo 0:37
Working together.
Andy 0:38
We've switched sides.
Jo 0:40
I know.
Andy 0:41
Yeah, the camera hasn't gone into mirror or anything. It's actually us. Can I move me. Hang on. This is terrible.
Jo 0:46
Oh no. What's wrong? What's happened? The mics not in the right place. Is that what you're saying?
Andy 0:52
I've failed.
Jo 0:53
No, no. Tweaking, tweaking.
Andy 0:56
Tweaking as we go, there we go. I'll get it fixed in the next break. So yes, Marriage Matters. What's our topic darling?
Jo 1:03
Going ear shaped
Andy 1:05
Going pear shaped. This is not a weight loss programme. What's going pear shaped about really briefly?
Jo 1:12
All kinds of things can go wrong in the marriage.
Andy 1:14
Yes.
Jo 1:15
Lots of problems,
Andy 1:15
And probably will.
Jo 1:17
Yeah.
Andy 1:17
And they do.
Jo 1:18
Oh, yeah. We're gonna talk a little bit about that.
Andy 1:21
Yes, but as ever, if you want to keep up to date with all that we're doing across the BerryBunch, including the wonderfulness of Marriage Matters, then you can follow us on Facebook, you can follow us on Instagram. We're also on YouTube, and Tumblr, and on Twitter.
Jo 1:35
Wow.
Andy 1:36
Lots and lots and lots. I'm on the wrong side of the screen now.
Jo 1:39
It's gonna take a while to get used to, isn't it!
Andy 1:41
So yes, and the best thing ever, as always, is to sign it to BerryBytes, which is our Newsletter, so you'll never miss a thing on anything brand new that we are putting out just for you. And you can do that at www.erryBunch.family.
Jo 1:55
You said that better than I did last week?
Andy 1:57
Yes, 3 Ws. Why is it so hard to put the third W in?
Jo 2:00
I don't know. I gave a trick to my, to our youngest. Use your fingers to guide you.
Andy 2:09
Not point?
Jo 2:11
Right, right. Yeah. Going pear shaped?
Andy 2:14
It's all gone Pear Shaped.
Jo 2:15
Yeah, it's All Gone Pear Shaped. It's a phrase. We were talking about it before, actually. It's quite, it's a bit unfair. It's a bit pearist. I mean, if you, I don't know if you do like pears, or eat pears, and we were talking about that. And we do have some pears, a pear tree, don't we. But I've not eaten one for a long time. And, but it's, it, I think it's the most user friendly way of saying when things go wrong, because there are other ways of saying it, which we
Jo 2:15
Other phrases are available!
Jo 2:20
But 'pear shaped' seemed the most clean. And that's what happens in marriages. We do have difficulties and problems.
Jo 2:47
I know we talked a bit about that last episode. But this is more about, I suppose we were going to use the phrase 'pea under the mattress'. How we allow things to grow and grow, isn't it? And then things go pear shaped things get out of hand.
Andy 3:02
Yes. And what are we supposed to do? As Christians? I mean, at the end of the day marriage is something that God designed . It's His intention for us to be married, a husband and a wife, to have children, to be part of society, in the church, and wider beyond that. And that's God's plan. That's His best. And everything about Marriage Matters is what is God's design. What's His best plan?
Andy 3:21
You may not be able to have children. That doesn't mean your marriage is any lesser. But what God's best for us? What's His plan? What's His design? You look around the world, all around us, there's all sorts of suggestions about how we should be in conflict resolution. We're not going down that road. Because I want to, I just get really bored of hearing that. There's much better ways! But, you know, what's God's best? And what is it we're trying to aim towards? What is God trying to say? 'Look, this is my desire for you!'
Jo 3:47
Yeah, I mean, it's hard problems do come along, and things do go pear shaped. But what I love about God is He kind of turns it around. And so you can learn and grow together through some of these difficulties.
Andy 4:00
And I've learned much through the difficulties of our marriage.
Jo 4:03
It's great marriage isn't it. It's a real learning curve!
Andy 4:07
It's a real something! Shall we take a little break.
Jo 4:10
Yeah, let's do that.
Andy 4:14
In 2018 Jo, and I, were full time children's ministers, loving what we were doing, and wanting to share our resources freely with others to use. Scroll on two years, to 2020, and we'd finally launched our BerryBunch.family website, chocked full of resources.
Andy 4:30
It was a bit embarrassing when we had one video. But we've now got nearly 500 videos for you to use, stream, share and download, with 900 posts, all full of information that you are free to use in your situation, whether that's a church, or family, or just for your own personal use.
Andy 4:47
We've been asked to do all sorts of things! We've made logos for somebody who wanted a new logo for their blog.
Andy 4:53
We've been asked to create a children's discipleship group. So we've done that.
Andy 4:57
We've been asked to create a book about Droken Dreams, and Hope! and we've done that as well. We love creating resources that are relevant for your situation. So get in touch with what your needs are.
Andy 5:07
Our vision and our passion is to create material that is family safe, For Free, For All, wherever you are in the world. And that is exactly what we do. So if you want to help us continue to do that, or if you want us to make something specific for your situation, then get in touch.
Jo 5:32
Welcome back then to Marriage Matters, where we're looking at It's Gone Pear Shaped.
Jo 5:37
Now, what we mean by that, there's problems in marriages, all kinds. I mean, we could see here listing loads, finances, stress, worry, work load, family, all kinds of things. And we've talked about, before the break, about a pea under the mattress. So, some things can really build up, particularly in arguments and disagreements and problems, it can start off as, you know, just saying something the wrong way. And then it just builds and builds and builds.
Jo 6:02
And problems can last can be really quick. Like, I don't know, if you trap your your partner's hand in the door, you can say sorry. And you can get over that quite quickly. But if, you know, you've got into arguments, and you said things, it might be for days. I mean, we have had that to be fair, and we've not talked to each other for days. And I think the Scripture does say don't go to bed on your anger. So, there's some scripture there about how to handle these situations.
Jo 6:25
So, that's what we're talking about. When it goes pear shaped. When you stop talking to each other. When, when, something in the relationship has happened, that is really getting in the way, isn't it?
Andy 6:36
Which makes you wonder what, what should a marriage look like? And I think part of that is, marriages are supposed to be a reflection of the fact that we are the bride of Christ. So, they're supposed to be some reflection of how much God loves us. And when you look through scripture, you know marriages aren't separate to Scripture. You look through scripture, and what you see is lots of examples about how to love one another, covering over one another's wrongs, about not getting angry quickly, about being peaceable. And all this stuff, the Fruit of the Spirit, the, the Gifts of the Spirit, excuse me. All that, it applies just as much in marriage as it does outside of marriage. So, you know, what should it look like? Well, it shouldn't be a situation where you're not talking to each other in love. So is this marriage the way that God intended? Well, what does the Bible say? Are you acting in love to one another? Is love your language? Or is your language actually more angry, and shouty, you know. So what, what is? what is it that God wants us to be? Well, it's a place of peace. It's a place that people can see and think, wow, they, they love Jesus. And I want to know this Jesus guy, too, you know. That that's what a marriage should do?
Jo 7:43
Yeah, I mean, the Bible talks about being peace. Like you say, so much of what in the Bible is for our marriages. And, so, we're peacemakers aren't we. We try and bring peace and harmony. Not just out in the world, and in our workplaces. But, in the family home and, actually, more so there. But one of the scriptures that we were talking about, was it Matthew 7, 5? About the plank in the eye wasn't it?
Andy 8:05
Yeah, I haven't actually got that.
Jo 8:06
Oh, sorry. I thought you were gonna use that one? Well, no, I did. But, I forgot. So, just, you know, talk among yourselves.
Jo 8:12
Matthew 7, 5. A common one is, you know, obviously, before you start judging other people, isn't it. It's about judgement. And we can get quite judgmental of each other in marriage, can't we 'cos we always feel like we're right in the documents.
Andy 8:26
Well, I mean, what's the classic one is the husband is doing a five minute job. And it takes more than five minutes. And it's such a stereotype, isn't it? But the wife comes along, 'You said you were gonna be five minutes, and you've been three hours'. And she's missing out the fact that he doesn't want to be unblocking the drains. Yeah, been there. And 'You said this was going to be quick'. 'Yeah, but it's taken longer', you know, and what's, what's the biblical response? What should be a godly response to that? Well, the husband should be more accurate and say, 'Well, maybe this is a five minute job but it might take longer, but you know, it's got to be done however long it takes'. Rather than 'Yeah, it'll only be five minutes', which is rarely true. And then the wife then should be saying, 'Wow, he's actually caring for our home, he's caring for me', rather than the erupution that frequently, in that stereotype, follows.
Andy 9:10
Verse what?Oh, sorry, Matthew 7, 5.
Andy 9:14
Ooh, not 15 then! "Hypocrites." There you go!
Andy 9:20
"First get rid of the log in your own eye, then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friends. eye."
Jo 9:26
Yeah.
Andy 9:27
And that's all about how you get the speck out the other person's eye. And one of the things that struck me is a speck to somebody else, can be a log in your own and, you know, something tiny on your eye, you're not going to see much are you?
Jo 9:38
Yeah.
Andy 9:38
It's gonna be quite unclear. And actually, it's about getting your life in order. It's not about being perfect. It's not about being the only one that's perfect. Only Jesus can do that. But it is about putting your heart right with God, before you go around.
Andy 9:50
One of the things I've always said is you need to win the right to speak into someone's life. And do what I mean by that? Really simply it's this. You can't go around saying I've been married for two years and you know nothing about marriage. 'So you need to listen to me 'cos I'm an expert.' Okay, that's not going around with humility. Who's gonna listen to you? Well somebody who just got married, perhaps. But if you've been married for 30 years, possibly not. It doesn't mean you don't have the right, but you need to win the right and you win the right by earning respect. And how do you do that? By living a godly life that's peaceful, by showing love.
Andy 10:21
We've been married for 25 years so that makes me personally feel like I actually have enough behind us to start to want to speak into other marriages. Because, actually, we've been through enough, for my own opinion, personally, that I can then speak into the marriages, because we've been through enough.
Jo 10:38
Yeah.
Andy 10:39
Some marriages, it might only be five years or 10 years. But, you knowwe've got to win the right to speak into people's lives. And if you're going around smoking, drinking, sleeping around and telling somebody how to be in their marriage, you got no, you've got no right to say that.
Jo 10:51
Yeah. And I suppose that works between the couple, isn't it? You know, between us, you know. If you know, if you win the right, because you've lived together and work together, and you've grown together to speak
Andy 11:03
Ooh, a bit like the dishwasher. I'm so amazing at the dishwasher. I have the right to speak to Jo about how to do it properly.
Jo 11:10
There's just one thing.
Andy 11:10
The dishwasher's full. No! So I come and put twice the amount in, you know, so it's fine!
Jo 11:19
Yeah, there's there are, I mean, that again, and I love there's The Story Of Us, a film, isn't there. It's that dance, and that way you learn about each other. And that's what we've talked about the marriage is an adventure. It's exciting, 'cos you get to know the person and you learn the tweaks, and the things, and that helps in terms of having arguments or difficulties isn't it. You think, hang on, 'Andy's not normally like that', or 'Jo's not normally like that'. Or, actually, I can, I know the way she looks, I can see she's tired or stressed or whatever it might be. So that, that helps when you know the person.
Andy 11:49
It's working to your strengths. I mean, I am particularly good at learning a dishwasher because I drove in logistics for 15 years and you're very, you get very good at spatial awareness, and how things can fit well. So, yeah, I am actually very good at loading a dishwasher. But it's not some special skill. It's just it's learned from a profession. Whereas Jo's not had that. Jo had a very, very different career. She didn't have to think about spatial awareness. Her's mostly involved a computer or a pen. So, you know, trying to get stuff in a dishwasher, that is my strength. And, actually, if I just wait for her to do it who's, who's being helped?
Jo 12:21
We should have called it disherwasher shaped, shoudln't we!
Andy 12:21
Disherwasher shaped hole? Yeah.
Jo 12:28
I've got James 1, 19. But I can't remember what that one was about.
Andy 12:31
Ooh, that was a good one.
Jo 12:32
Was it?
Andy 12:32
Well it would be when I can find it.
Jo 12:34
As I say there's loads, I mean, honestly, you could get loads of Scripture to help you with working out difficulties in marriage, you really could couldn't you just.
Andy 12:41
Don't ever say there's nothing in the Bible to help you in your marriage!
Andy 12:45
"Understand this, my dear brothers and sisters, you must all be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to get angry. Human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. So get rid of all the filth and evil in your lives and humbly accept the word God has planted in your heart for it has the power to save your souls."
Jo 13:06
Wow, deep.
Andy 13:08
'"But don't just listen to God's Word, you must do what it says.' It carries on. And I think, in marriage, that's ever so much more applicable. We've touched on this quite frequently, this one little point. If you're single, and God's called you to a life of celibacy then, in some ways, it's very easy to do certain things that a married couple can't. If you want time on your own, well it's there, you go home, you go into a bedroom and you're on your own.
Andy 13:30
When we go to our bedroom we're not on our own because we're with one another, 'cos we share the same bed, funnily enough. And I think that's one of the differences in marriages. How do you tackle those problems? How do you deal with these things? 'Cos it is different. It's not better or worse, you're not better because you're single, you're not better because you're married. But it does put a different spin on the problem of, how do you deal with this particular problem?
Jo 13:49
Yeah, I suppose it's the old adage, isn't it? It's like you have a difficulty with your other half, or your wife or husband. And then you think I need to talk to them about it 'cos they're my best friend. They're the person I go to, but they're the problem I have, you know. And that's what you were saying last week, and throughout a lot of our Marriage Matters is that you can't do marriage on your own. You need some support from others, don't you.
Andy 14:09
Some parts of marriage you should be on your own for.
Jo 14:11
Yes!
Andy 14:12
Just saying the vulnerability of nakedness is not something you want to share, ever. But, yeah, it's really good to have other people.
Jo 14:20
Yeah.
Andy 14:21
you know, we've as a couple we've not had that, that, that joy and that richness of lots of other people in our lives quite so directly, but we have it in different ways. And one way, or another, it's good to have input into your life. Whether it's people who can just give you a night off together, not a night off from your kids, but a night off, a night a night off the norm, a night for just a date night you know. Can someone look after your kids? Can you look after theirs one night, and they'll look after yours another. You know, a bit of give and take. Whether it's so you can go to church together of an evening perhaps. you know, could somone look after, or even have a, you know, one family has a big party with all the kids, so all the adults can go and have church time together.
Jo 14:58
Yeah.
Andy 14:59
There's lots of ways around this. But, you know, how do you, how do you find time together? How do you resolve these issues? It's not conflict resolution, that's not a particularly biblical model at all. There's much better ways of looking at what that's trying to deal with. But, as Christians, what is God desiring for us. And if I'm not acting with love towards Jo, I'm wrong. It doesn't matter if she's done something wrong and I'm write in calling her out on something, which happens rarely, but it happens. It's probably more the other way! But anyway!!
Andy 15:26
But if, you know, I have an obligation to help Jo in her Christian walk to say, 'Look, this isn't right'. And she has that of me. And then if I go to Jo and she doesn't listen, then actually the Bible has an answer for that too. Take someone with you, I should come and say Jo, we really don't think this is a good idea. And you can go, ph no, that's about church discipline. But actually, marriage is of God's design. Marriage should be within the church. You should be in a church family, therefore, the Scripture is just as applicable for marriage. And eventually, you have to throw them out. Well, that's a divorce, isn't it? That's when you say, it's not okay to keep on doing that particular action. Whether it's stealing or embezzlement or whatever, you know, we've, we've challenged you, we've tackled you now we need to move forwards.
Andy 16:06
And I've read a few tales of, of marriages. There was one particular one where the husband was embezzling money. And the wife said, I'm gonna stand by you, but we're gonna go to the pastor, and you're going to deal with this, and you're gonna be honest. And together, as a couple, with the church, with the pastor, they dealt with that, and God worked through that and strengthened their marriage. So things can be redeemed. But we have an obligation. A,s you know, as much as I'm Jo's husband, I'm also her brother in Christ. That means I have an obligation to her, as she has to meet to challenge each other.
Jo 16:35
Yeah. I think, I think, in the world, you know, that we say, 'Oh, you know, you shouldn't be meddling with with marriages, you know, with us what, what is private and things like that?' And I think that's very dangerous, isn't it? I mean, like you say, there are elements to the marriage that are private. But, you know, you need to be open and honest about what's what's going on. And, yeah, so I think it's really important. 'Cos the thing is, there's a lot of pressure on families, you know, financial, stress, it's quite hard, isn't it, particularly at this time, but, but, but I guess, throughout I mean, you talk to any families throughout the 50s, 60s, whatever, there's always difficulties and pressures on families. And all, they do need the support, like you say, having a bit of a break, or just just taking some pressure off. Because, if you've got pressure, then there's danger then of stress, of arguments, and more difficulties.
Andy 16:35
Yeah. We've touched, in Season 1, we touched on some of the issues of tiredness and how you can have arguments just because you're tired. There's nothing wrong with you, your marriage, no one's done anything. You're just tired and you need a bit of a break together. And I think it's important to remember that, to recognise that, and one of the most precious things was, it was basically our anniversary. We were staying with some friends for, nearly, a couple of weeks. And they said, right we'll take the lads off to a game of football, then you and Jo can go off for an anniversary meal. It was our first night out together for many a year. COVID had happened as well so it'd been ages since we'd had time on our own. And it's not about getting rid of the kids. It's about, I married Jo first. She's my first priority. She's my first ministry and therefore I need to invest into Jo, into her, her, who she is, into our marriage, and our relationship as she does with me. And, then, you build a beautiful marriage. But when you stop investing it's like if you stop watering a plant. It's gonna go brown and die.
Jo 17:21
Yeah.
Andy 17:28
You can maybe revive it. But
Jo 18:15
What I loved about that was that, you know, when we look after each other, then therefore, that impacts the children, and they're happier. But, on that occasion, they had a great time, didn't they?
Andy 18:23
They went to their first football match with a guy who loves football. We would have been useless 'cos it's like, 'Yeah, there's a bag of wind and they're kicking it, oh, it's gone back again' I wouldn't have been a great commentator that night. Shall we take a little break?
Jo 18:35
Let's do it.
Steven 18:43
So, Endurance, wait, no, first. I'm Steven.
Nathan 18:46
I'm Nathan.
Steven 18:47
And we're brothers actually.
Nathan 18:49
Yeah, in case you hadn't noticed. I mean I know the much more masculine physique on this side may have thrown you off.
Steven 18:57
Yeah, I'm actually older.
Nathan 18:59
Yeah.
Steven 19:00
Taller, stronger, fitter.
Nathan 19:03
Maybe.
Steven 19:04
No, definitely.
Nathan 19:06
Anyway, that's not the point of Endurance. It's Spiritual Training, not physical.
Steven 19:10
Yep. Yep.
Nathan 19:10
Not that we obviously we don't compete that much.
Steven 19:13
Nor spiritually shouldn't compete spiritually either.
Nathan 19:16
No.
Steven 19:16
No.
Nathan 19:16
No, but I'm better than you.
Steven 19:18
I dunno what to say to that.
Nathan 19:22
There is no, no answer.
Steven 19:24
So, the point of Endurance is all about 1 Timothy
Nathan 19:27
Taking the mic out of each other.
Steven 19:28
It's all About 1 Timothy 4, verse 8, which says, "Physical training is good but training for godliness is much better". And so it was idea which, I think it was my idea actually, wasn't it?
Nathan 19:40
It was a joint effort. There's no I in team.
Steven 19:43
Yeah, so it was definitely my idea.
Nathan 19:45
Yeah.
Steven 19:45
And the idea being that we have to, well, I was challenged because basically I enjoy exercise. I was doing lots of weight training, lots of running and I was getting a bit obsessive.
Nathan 19:56
You were failing to train spiritually.
Steven 19:58
Yeah, yeah, you could say that I was idolising physical fitness.
Nathan 20:01
So, we created Endurance to help him learn better how to balance spiritual physical training.
Steven 20:08
Yeah, basically.
Nathan 20:09
'Cos I've already cracked it.
Steven 20:14
No, no.
Nathan 20:16
No?
Steven 20:16
You've got a long way to go yet. So go check us out.
Nathan 20:21
I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. I mean, you're way behind.
Steven 20:25
Cut!
Andy 20:36
And we're back for more. And I've cleaned up the little mess you may have noticed I made over here earlier, in the last segment. So, welcome back to Tips and Resources. I don't like it on this side.
Jo 20:49
Oh, really.
Andy 20:50
I want to be on that side.
Jo 20:51
Well you'll get used to it?
Andy 20:53
No.
Jo 20:53
You don't want to get used to it?
Andy 20:55
No, it's not working?
Jo 20:56
It's gone. pear shaped, it sort of fits in.
Andy 20:58
It's gone Pear Shaped
Jo 20:59
Problems.
Andy 20:59
Yeah, I'm knocking stuff all over the place. It's just,
Jo 21:02
In one of the breaks you actually fixed that? What's the thing that goes round the mic, with a,
Andy 21:06
Oh, it's little pop shield.
Jo 21:07
Plasticky thing? I've forgotten the name.
Andy 21:09
Cable tie?
Jo 21:10
Cable tie? And I said, oh, wouldn't it be good if we could solve all our problems with cable ties.
Andy 21:15
Cable ties and gaffa tape. The world would be a happier place.
Jo 21:18
Yeah, but it's not always that easy inrelationships.
Andy 21:20
no, I can't gaffa tape you.
Jo 21:21
So Tips and Resources to help us resolve move forward.
Andy 21:25
Yes.
Jo 21:25
And develop, and grow, a really healthy relationship go on then. What you got? I've set you up. Set me up for something amazing there.
Andy 21:34
I dunno. You've thrown me completely. I was just coughing to death. So, one of the things that was really striking me, and we kind of touched on this a lot in the, in the meaty section and it's about how much of scripture really talks into marriage.
Andy 21:47
We're not on our own in marriage, it's really great to have other people. And my Tip and Resource would be this. The Bible's got loads of stuff we can help us with. It's got lots of stuff about how we need to learn, and be slow to anger, and to cover each other's faults, and not go poking each other's eyes out out trying to pluck out this planks or some dodgy
Jo 22:03
Something like that;.
Andy 22:04
paraphrase. Anyway. And that's, that's great. But, also, we've said this many times, and I'm going to keep on saying this every episode where it feels right is go and spend time with a couple who had been married longer. Don't just look for an older married couple. Don't look for a married couple that are really, like, angry and hate filled towards another.
Jo 22:22
No!
Andy 22:22
But, look for a married couple that are peaceable. That, when you see them you think I can see, I can see Jesus in them, you know?
Jo 22:31
Yeah, I mean, you can learn from other people's mistakes.
Andy 22:34
Yes.
Jo 22:34
And how not to do things in life, obviously. But,
Andy 22:37
I do that every day when I look at you dear.
Jo 22:40
But you know that, what's that that old adage? You know, the way to know, the real currency of any country is to study the real thing. And so, yeah, to come alongside people who are getting it getting it right or know. And have been there, eaten the T Shirt, worn the pizza, as it were.
Andy 22:56
Yeah, or, perhaas worn the pizza and eaten the T Shirt.
Jo 22:58
Or, the other way around. The other thing, like you were saying about the Bible, there's so much in there for everyday life. It's
Andy 23:03
So much!
Jo 23:03
It's, it's it's a manual for life, isn't it? And, obviously, marriage has been designed by God, so God's got some great stuff in there to help us. And we thought about Matthew 18, 15 to 20. We won't read that particularly now
Andy 23:03
Oh good!
Jo 23:11
will we. But it's about, you, you alluded to it earlier about the fact that we need to actually keep short accounts and keep account. And it's up to us as Christians. So you were saying we are friends, and we are married, but we're also brothers and sisters in Christ. So we need to keep, you know, each other in check and say, 'Hang on the way you're behaving that isn't right'. And so check with each other. And if we won't listen, then we need to bring another person in. And then maybe take it to church and it gives you, sorry, it gives you the principles in that, that scripture, doesn't it?
Andy 23:46
Yes, I was gonna say that's very countercultural. The idea of me saying to Jo, 'Do you know? I think you're getting this wrong, and you need to get used to sort this out'. That's absolutely not what you would ever be encouraged to do in the world. Some people would say I always see manipulative and controlling. No, it's called I have an obligation to invest into my wife, because it's in her interest and mine that I do all I can to support her. And, sometimes, we do this to each other, that means challenging one another and saying, 'Do you know? That was wrong. That was out of line that was!'
Jo 24:14
Yeah.
Andy 24:15
And we've done it to one another in all sorts of different contexts. I can't think of any at the moment. But there are times when we say, 'Do you know, you're getting this wrong.' Because the thing is, if I can't challenge Jo, and if she can't challenge me, who on earth can?
Jo 24:27
Yeah, I mean, it is a biblical principle. And it's something that we, as Christians, should be, sort of, applying to all parts of our lives, not just our marriages. So, my tip then, is to go off and read Matthew 15, Matthew 18, 15 to 20 and just reflect on that and pray through that.
Jo 24:42
And the other thing that I've came, stumbled across, really, as I was sort of thinking about problems in marriage was a website, marriage.com And it's like 30 problems you might have in your, in your marriage, and they've got just loads of articles about various different problems.
Andy 24:55
Only 30?
Jo 24:56
Yeah, I think there are more than that. But I think they're just, there just see seems to be lots of articles there. So, you might find if you are struggling with a particular problem, there might be a solution, or an answer to the problem there. But, let me know how you get on because I haven't actually read all of the articles. But some of what I was reading was really helpful.
Andy 25:12
We've said it before. I don't, I'm not into caveats. But, if we recommends something, go and check it out with a bible.
Jo 25:17
Yeah. Sorry if it's not.
Andy 25:18
It's always the same.
Jo 25:19
Sorry if it's not.
Andy 25:20
But this is one we definitely haven't checked, quite as much as we normally would but that's ok.
Jo 25:23
From what I perused over there was some really helpful stuff.
Andy 25:26
Use your head, and the filter of Scripture, you'll be fine.
Jo 25:28
Yeah
Andy 25:28
Shall we take little break?
Jo 25:29
Yep.
Andy 25:32
I was asked to record a video, and write a book, by a friend. He'd seen so many people with broken dreams, just hopeless about the life they were living and the life before them. So, I wrote a book. It's my very first book, it's called Broken Dreams, and Hope! It's based on my own life, some struggles that I've had. And the fact that, through those struggles, however bad they were, whether they were caused by me, or caused against me, throughout all of that, there was still hope.
Andy 26:02
Let me just read a few things that people who've read this book already have said,
Andy 26:07
"It's a page turner, with each chapter leaving you wanting to read just one more"
Andy 26:11
"You gave the reader motivation to look up and grab the hand that can lift you up on your feet, and walk you through life's muddy mire. And I love the way you spoke of hurt and abuse, but never going into details that would have robbed the reader of their own inward pains and ability to take hold of the Lord's extended hand. The hand that will never let go."
Andy 26:34
Broken Dreams, and Hope! is a book I wrote because I know what it is to have broken dreams. I know what it is to feel hopeless. But I also know what it is to have hope. Because that hope has a name, and that name is Jesus Christ.
Andy 27:00
So, here we are for The Take Away.
Jo 27:04
Yes.
Andy 27:04
Marriage Matters, The Take Away. So what's your take away dearest darling, my love?
Jo 27:08
Ah, right, I should have got my head around this a bit more.
Andy 27:12
It is the Take Away. The title's the giveaway.
Jo 27:15
I suppose, it came to my mind, you know how sometimes they say you made your bed, you lie in it, you know? And it's like, well, you know, you married him or you married her. But actually there, it doesn't, it isn't like that. There's so much resources, so much help the Bible's amazing, some great stuff in there. There's people have been married for many years, who can really advise us. And I've stumbled across a website, and there's loads of books and resources. And, you know, you name it, if you've got that problem, there's probably somebody's written something, been through that, and have come up with some some ways forward.
Andy 27:47
Don't ever think you're struggling on your own.
Jo 27:49
So I find that really encouraging 'cos, like I say, sometimes you get that sense of the old feeling in the world is 'Oh, right, that's it, you know, you're married now, you're, off you go, your own problems'. But that's not true. We can help each other along this journey. That's good!
Andy 28:03
No, we can. Yeah, I'd endorse that as well. Just to say that you're never on your ow. The problem you're going through, somebody will have gone through the same thing. Nothing is new under the sun. That's what the Bible teaches us. So, in the last 2,000 years of history, just the last 2,000 years, since Jesus was here, somebody will have been through it. And you've got 1,000s of years before that. And the Bible has the answer to everything! Sometimes you have to scratch a bit deeper.
Jo 28:24
Yeah.
Andy 28:24
But you don't have to scratch hard. You don't need a theology degree. You don't need a concordance. You just need to go to God and say, 'Please help me. What, what is it I've got to do here?
Jo 28:32
Yeah. That's what I was gonna say, I suppose the difficulty is when there's more than one problem? Because the problems don't come in one at a time, do they? They don't nicely line themselves up and go, ok, I've finished that problem, next one along.
Andy 28:42
Our experience is one that the big problems come and then another one. And before you've realised what the first one is, you're on to the 17th.
Jo 28:50
Yeah, that's it, isn't it. And that's where you do need help?
Andy 28:53
Yes. You need to reach out. So, I was thinking about my Take Away and, just for this episode, we thought, well, we'll switch sides. It's not a big deal. And it's gone Pear Shaped. I'm on the wrong side. Everything's not right.
Jo 29:05
Oh.
Andy 29:05
It's just, it's not working. And it's funny, isn't it? I was thinking about this as my Take Away. Sometimes we can make a small change and it just it just doesn't work. I mean, so I was sitting on a different seat from Jo, but it's just not working.
Jo 29:19
You know, let me just tell you something, Andy, this isn't, this is not the first time this has happened is it? We were, we had our sides of the bed don't we? I have my bedside table.
Andy 29:29
Do you have your own side of the bed?
Jo 29:29
And you just couldn't cope could you? You couldn't cope. We had to it, was it, we had to swap back didn't we 'cos you just couldn't cope.
Andy 29:35
It just, it just wasn't working and, well, it wasn't just me. You weren't coping either, I would say.
Jo 29:43
Oh, alright, fair enough.
Andy 29:43
It wasn't just me!
Jo 29:43
Funny that innit.
Andy 29:43
It's interesting how we're doing Iit's Gone Pear Shaped, and It's Gone Pear Shaped in here.
Jo 29:46
Yeah. Oh, well.
Andy 29:48
However, being on this side. I've realised this little clippy thing isn't working right.
Jo 29:51
Ah.
Andy 29:51
Which I may not have noticed if I had not sat in Jo's chair.
Jo 29:55
Yeah, ah.
Andy 29:56
'Cos she hasn't told me, so I've spotted it. And I've
Jo 29:59
A different perspective
Andy 30:00
A different perspective, which leads me nicely to my Take Away.
Jo 30:03
Yes.
Andy 30:03
Thank you.
Jo 30:04
Oh!
Andy 30:04
When things are going pear shaped, try and get a different perspective. Why is it going wrong? Is it something you've done? Can you control it? Can you prevent it from getting worse. I think about, for example, when you've got some milk, using my little son's poor accident the day. If you've got a big jug of milk in a fridge, in a microwave, and it falls over, but at some point, you're gonna have to realise we've made a mess. You can't just mop it up. Actually, you've got to make more mess. So, in that case, I had to take the bottom of the microwave off. I had to get a bit of tea towel and a knife, and kind of dry it all up so it didn't stink. And, in some ways, I had to make it a lot worse before it could get better.
Andy 30:42
And I think that's true in our marriages. Sometimes, in order to fix a problem, you've got to go a bit wider, you've got to dig around the problem. And that milk went everywhere! I didn't really care about the milk on the floor, or the milk on the cupboard, or on the cupboard. I kind of cared about the microwave, so then I had to prioritise and thinh, well, that's important. And to make sure that my son never thought he was at fault. The glass dish didn't sit right, the little foot thing, it spins on had gne wrong. And you know, it went wrong. It wasn't his fault. So I wanted to make sure that he knew that, most importantly, you know, 'You're not in trouble, you haven't done anything wrong, it's not your fault, you didn't set out for this, it just gone wrong. And then you try and minimise how much worse it's gonna get. And then you start to try and fix it. And I think that's probably quite a good illustration for marriage.
Andy 31:21
Sometimes we've got to go a bit wider. We've got to say, 'Look, I'm really sorry, I've bit your head off. But you know what, this is not you.' And, sometimes, actually, you do this, when you're in a bad mood for whatever, which isn't often. But, if you are, it's kind of noticeable. Usually, it's been a very intense day of work, and some't has gone wrong and all these problems and you just say 'I'm really not coping with this. This has go nothing to do with you', 'cos I instantly think I've done something wrong. Not 'cos that's normal by the way! But, it's my go to repsonse, 'I'm in trouble for something' cos I always ened up getting blamed 'cos I was just quite a nice, sweet lad and people blamed me 'cos they got away with it. But, yeah, that's my go to response.
Andy 31:56
So, go around the situation a bit.
Jo 31:59
Yeah.
Andy 32:00
And make sure if you're, if you're really upset, just say to your spouse, 'This isn't about you, but I'm really not happy about something.' So, that they're off the hook and they can help you.
Jo 32:09
Yeah.
Andy 32:09
'Cos if they think you're attacking them, well, they're gonna start attacking you. And kaboom!
Jo 32:15
Good one.
Andy 32:16
A bit of fallout. So, there you go. Another Marriage Matters.
Andy 32:18
We will return more for next week, because we're well over time. We hope you've enjoyed this. Let us know your thoughts if you wish. There's loads of ways you can get in touch, so don't complain you can't. And we'll be back for more next week. My name's Andy.
Jo 32:30
And I'm Jo and it's bye for now.
Andy 32:32
Bye for now.
Jo 32:45
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